Aug 26th 2011 By: Laura Hudson
I have heard Djurdjevic speak at panels before, and he plainly stated that he doesn't read comic books, even the ones he drew, and has no interest in the medium outside of the paycheck. His blase attitude, bordering on disdain, turned me off of his work completely, and if he doesn't want to work in comics anymore, that's his choice too.
August 30 2011 at 12:34 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Reply@ prankster Blown out of proportion or not, the idea that anyone would support the sentiment as expressed is laughable everywhere EXCEPT in comics.
No, you are not hired to be given free reign, show up for your check and then bitch and moan when editorial "interferes." It's their house. You're a worker in it. ONly a fanboy, and one who understands nothing about freelancing in the real world at that, would side with the person who made the quoted statement.
if it's a misquote, fine, but you didn't know that and you took the wrong position out of some ridiculous notion that these people are Autuers. They are not. Work-for-hire is, by it's nature, collaborative with the freelancer deferring to the employer when conflicts arise.
Yeah, you can fight for your darlings if you feel it's necessary but, in the end, if you can't win the argument, you LOSE. And then you go do your best anyway. Because, as I said, that's how grown-ups function.
I neither known nor care if the subsequent corrections to the original story are correct or if the original got it right. That isn't the issue. The issue is professionalism vs prima donna whining. You chose to back the latter. That was the wrong move.
If you're an artist of certain ability, you're hired for your skill. That means the people who hire you must desire whatever perspectives or ideas you bring to the table. There should be a give and take between the artist and the firm who's hired him or her. A truly great publishing process is a collaborative one, it doesn't have to be "I am a unique snowflake!" or "You took the money do whatever they want".
Maybe someone of lesser ability is hired just to pump out pages in the house style, but when you are in the deeper end of the talent pool there should be a give and take between the artist/worker and editorial.
I don't know to what degree the story has been blown out of proportion, but there obviously is a communication issue going on between the two sides.
Editorial interference can vary, though, and I see no evidence that Djurdjevic was whining simply because he was being asked to change things. His specific complaint seems to be about editorial not being able to make up their mind. If it was simply a case of "they asked for changes, boo hoo me", then yes, that's whiny and unprofessional. But if the editors aren't acting professional, or according the artist a sufficient amount of respect, I don't think it's unreasonable to complain, paycheck or no.
The mere fact that Djurdjevic seems to have a good relationship with film and video game companies, who I've got to assume can also be pretty controlling editorially, kind of puts the lie to your "only in comics!" statement, or claims of Djurdjevic being a prima donna.
Considering how crappy the recent cover to the FF Hard cover is, I guess i have to agree with him. He can do better. I don't know where I stand. Did Kirby do better outside of Marvel? Talk about a double edged sword scenario. I have yet see a New Gods, Silver Star or Captain Victory blockbuster or even a mug.
August 28 2011 at 6:10 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Replymarko genuinely seems pissed off by this news. Somehow somenone been doing "smears" campaign on him
August 28 2011 at 2:33 AM Report abuse Permalink +1 rate up rate down Reply>> Chris Roberson, Mark Waid, and Kurt Busiek especially all jumped on Marko's ass >>
Excuse me?
I was the one talking the others down, saying the story sounded slanted. Marko's ass remains unjumped by me.
That's the problem with the internet.. someone says that you said and it's a true statement...
August 27 2011 at 10:58 PM Report abuse Permalink +1 rate up rate down ReplyBUSIEK DENIES ASS-JUMPING DJURDJEVIC! FILM AT ELEVEN!
Among other things, that's one hell of a hard headline to pronounce.
prima donna. Don't sign the contract if you can't do the job. Work-for-Hire is not "do it your way and we'll rubber stamp." It's work for effing HIRE. They own. You fulfill your obligation. You get paid by them. That's how ADULTS function in business.
Grow up.
Why are fanboys always so quick to rush to the defense of giant corporations over artists? Especially when it's been proven over and over again that Marvel and DC are run by unprofessional jackasses with no idea of the value of art?
Notice that Djurdjevic implicitly praises video game and movie companies, which are presumably much bigger and theoretically more controlling than comics. But they're also professionals who understand that you hire an artist for their creativity, not to jerk them around. The big two subsist on product, product, product, forced down the throat of undiscriminating fans. If Djurdjevic doesn't want to put up with that anymore, I say, good for him.
I'm not a "fanboy." I'm a professional writer.
I've done creator-owned stuff and I've worked for hire. There's a huge difference between the two. Anyone who doesn't understand that difference doesn't get to call themselves a pro, no matter how much money they make or how "creative" they are. Bite me with that.
If you sign the contract as a work for hire employee, they are NOT paying you to do anything you want (unless the contract says they are which they never ever do.). You work for them. Just like the accountant and the mailroom kid. Exactly like them.
This is COMMERCIAL art, not art for it's own sake. If they're paying you to work for them, they have oversight of your output and, to some degree, your process insofar as it affects deadlines, quality (as determined by them) etc. This isn't a moral issue. It's got nothing to do with liking or not liking the man's work or being pro or anti "big corporation."
If he wants carte blanche he needs to do what Kirkman, Bendis, Wagner, Foglio, and everybody at a creator-owned company does, i.e. assume the entire financial risk of making the product and most of the legwork of promoting it. If you're not willing to take that risk or do that work, if you think you're so good Company X needs to pay you for the privilege of getting access to your stellar output, you're effing dreaming, kid.
NOBODY is that good.
And, more to the point, nobody should ever look in the mirror after signing a work-for-hire agreement and think the rules don't apply. That's what an agreement is. If you take the money, you do what your employers want. Or give the money back.
This is pissy, unprofessional behavior of the kind that the comic book industry tolerates far too often.
Putting aside the fact that this appears to have been blown out of proportion, the idea that "Work for Hire" turns you into a complete serf has always been a dubious one to me. Stephen Bisette agrees with me (http://srbissette.com/?p=12761) and cites a fairly in-depth legal paper
(http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1715&context=faculty_scholarship) to that effect. I honestly think this argument has had a seriously deleterious effect on the value we place on artists, and in a larger sense, the "They're paying you, so shut up and take it" is a damaging one to our society as a whole. It's not unreasonable to ask for a certain level of respect and dignity in addition to payment.
Commercial art is still art. As Djurdjevic points out, they hired him for his creativity, and other people who have done so (in environments, movie and game design, where he would stand out FAR less as part of their team than he would as a comic artist) have apparently had more respect for him. Furthermore, the stuff he's complaining about--editorial waffling, basically--sounds far more like a failure of professionalism on Marvel's part than his own. Redrawing an artists' pages was a stupid, shitty thing to do when it happened to Kirby on Jimmy Olsen, and it's a stupid, shitty thing to do now.
Finally, if a company is paying you well for your creativity, then you should give them your best work. That means you don't act like a mindless cog in the machine. That's not the creative process. You have a responsibility to push for something that makes the story or art better, even if the people above you can't see that in the moment. Every creative person has a story about how their non-creative boss made changes that diminished their work--never mind creative success, I'm talking about something that flopped financially. Wouldn't the artist in that case have better served the company that hired him by fighting the stupid ideas that were being forced on him?
If, as a creative person, you have resigned yourself to button-pushing for a paycheck, you aren't doing your job, and you're diminishing yourself as an artist in the process.
...putting pieces of Djurdjevic's words randomly and out of context isn't even close to journalism. Reading the article published by CBR , you got the feeling of someone really pissed of with his ex-employers, interrupting other people and being a complete and massive idiot. Then you got replies by any of those who actually where in the panel and the cover is completely different.
Who isn't been professional here?
and sorry for the broken english.. "pissed off" and "by those who actually WERE there". to name a few.. hehe
August 27 2011 at 3:28 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Replyand now JMS is helping matters by calling Marko "the Charlie Sheen of comics". how dramatic.
August 27 2011 at 2:14 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Replywhere did he say that? interested in reading more.
August 27 2011 at 2:41 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate down Replylooks like it was his facebook page
August 27 2011 at 2:58 PM Report abuse Permalink rate up rate downThis whole thing seems blown out of proportion to me. If people are being honest, not every word is going to be spin and PR. I don't hold that against anybody. I've had jobs that have sucked, and I've been glad when they're finished --- I'm guessing most of us have.
August 27 2011 at 9:42 AM Report abuse Permalink +2 rate up rate down ReplyI want to start off by apologizing for any typos, etc because I'm submitting this from my phone.
I was at the panel and one of the things that these so-called "reporters" are forgetting to mention is that, I believe it was Hickman who brought up the fact that Marko was moving on from Marvel. I believe he said something to the effect of, "hey, did you guys know that Marko is a free agent now?"
Everyone is reporting on this as though Marko said "I hate Marvel. I quit!", which is completely NOT what happened.
I love going to Marko's panels because he is always honest and frank about what his life and work is like. If he's not happy about something he's working on, he's not going to sugarcoat it. I for one fond his honesty very refreshing in a world where everyone is so careful about "burning bridges". I've heard writers complain about artists before, and the fact that Marko complained about working with a certain writer should surprise NO ONE. There's no rule that creative teams have to get along or even like one another. Sorry folks, but it's life. It happens.
Everyone was having a great time and I enjoyed the entire panel. There were no "awkward silences" or anything of that matter. It was light and fun. Nobody should crucify Marko for letting us know how he felt about his job. We should all appreciate that he was honest enough to say that sometimes the editors are wrong. He recognizes that they're a business interested in making money, yet he wishes they would allow him more artistic freedom. Is that so wrong?
I just wish people would stop blowing things out of proportion and take it for what it is: his contract ran out and he decided to look for alternate work opportunities.
Like that has never happened before.
It's true. When I read the headline for this story it made me think that Djurdjevic had a spontaneous "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more" meltdown right in the middle of the expo, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Gotta love when the internet turns into an old school game of "Telephone".
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